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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.02.04 19:37:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 04/02/2008 19:44:31
Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 04/02/2008 19:38:14
My corp requires a limited API to join and frankly I agree with other posters who say they wouldn't consider a corp or alliance that didn't ask for it. It's not just the savy 0.0 alliances it's almost all decent PvP corps as well that require it.
We ask it for a couple reasons:
1) Security. The argument that "Well it only weeds out the 'dumb' spies/saboteurs." is so completely illogical that it's amazing it needs a retort but here it is anyway: My job as someone involved with recruitment is to use reasonable means to protect the corp and it's members from BOTH the dumb and the more intelligent/resourceful spies/saboteurs. Dumb ones probabably cause more grief for corps since there are more of them and there are a ton of corps that don't exercise even a small amount of due diligence. If you are hiring for your company do you not do any background and reference checks because "Oh well, the really smart ones will get through the check anyway."? Like I said - this argument against limited APIs needs to be placed where it belongs: on the trash heap. I have more invested in protecting the existing members of my corp then in the desire of potential recruit to keep secret who their alts are. That's where my loyalty lies and once someone is a member they get the benefit of that when other new members apply.
2) Check where the player is at with regards to SPs. A player may tell you they can fly x,y or z ship but by checking their skills you can see and advise them that perhaps they'd be better off fliying a,b and c for your ops until they get some support skills up. When they ask for skill training path advice it helps you give them informed advice.
As to "I share mine you share yours". We used to keep everyone's up on a thread in our corp forum until some members asked us to move it to the private director thread. They fully supported us asking for theirs and anyone else that applied, however, they were more comfortable with it not being generally avaiable. So that's what we do now. If anyone needed mine to feel comfortable giving me theirs, I'd be fine with it.
To the OP. If you decide after reading all these responses not to provide your limited API key to a prospective corp - that's fine. Play the way you like. The great thing about EVE is that our choices have consequences. If you choose for greater 'privacy' then you choose to not be a viable candidate for a large number of well run corps. If you choose to give your key then you may also feel comforted that every other person in the corp has gone through the same thing (and ask if that's the case). If you give your limited API key to a corp that chooses not to accept you then just be sure to generate a new limited API key once you know and 'presto', they no longer have access to your skills, etc.
Good luck with your decision.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.02.04 20:03:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 04/02/2008 20:04:22
 Originally by: Kailea Shandrasekkar
'Those Who Would Sacrifice Liberty for Security Deserve Neither.'
- some Franklin guy
If you are equating 'liberty' with sharing relevant information to others who may count on you then you're a hypocrite if you have a job and by even playing EVE since you had to give them some information to even be posting, playing or collecting a paycheck.
That's a great quote btw and an excellent general sentiment for sure (ironically from a man who had more alts then anyone playing EVE has ever had  - Poor Richard and all the rest). But show us you are smarter then being able to quote soundbites from famous Americans (something even Bush can do) by actually expressing how it really applies to this situation.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.02.04 20:26:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 04/02/2008 20:33:25
Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 04/02/2008 20:29:43
Jana Hull: You are massively unaware of the difference between criminal law and our constitutional protections and the necessary suspension of some of those protections we make in our civic lives. I'm happy that you have such a firm grasp of your US constitutional protections (I firmly enjoy and believe in them.) but this is not a US court of law. Last time I checked it was a recreational game owned by a company in Iceland. Additionally, if you examine your day to day civic living you regularly suspend this notion of innocent until proven guilty. Most often in the work place but also in myriad other aspects of your life that have nothing to do with the cops wanting to search your vehicle.
Hell, ever hire a babysitter? Are they considered trustworthy until proven otherwise? Do you hire them without knowing a thing about them and plan to have them "earn your trust"? Or do you ask friends and neighbors for references and ask to speak to their parents first if you don't know them already? Some of you folks are spouting ideology w/o fact checking this against your own day to day decision making and how you make those decisions.
Kailea: I'll no longer attempt to disrupt your reveling in "perfect conciseness and laconic truth". My apologies for failing to understand the sheer genius of it and, more importantly, you before.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.02.04 20:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Janu Hull
Actually, they apply everywhere. In terms of EVE, its asking me to prove to you I do not intend to harm the corporation I'm joining, instead of someone demonstrating that I do.
I cannot logically prove a negative, so there's no real way I can demonstrate that I have no intent to harm a corp I apply to.
Besides, what business is it of anyone's what skills I have trained? If I fail to live up to the corp's performance standards through demonstrations of my own gameplay, you can fire me later.
To borrow from the style of the erudite Kailea:
"You can lead a horse to water but some of them just want to drink the koolaid." 
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.02.04 21:07:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 04/02/2008 21:19:38
LOL. You are free. No one can make you give them your limited API key and they may decide to not let you in their corp. Just as no one can make you give them your social security number and they will most certainly decide not to give you a job. It's all about choices.
Edit: And since Kailea just brought such a smile to my face today: "Freedom is the recognition of necessity." - Engels (with due credit for the idea to Hegel)
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.02.07 02:49:00 -
[6]
It's already been pointed out how illogical it is for a corp to not bother screening for the overconfident or ill-prepared griefer/spy because the smarter more resourceful ones will get through anyway. You get all the ones you can and not just let all of them waltz in. Just asking for a limited api sends many wouldbe griefer/spies/thieves that are at the noober end of the scale off packing without wasting any of your time.
Anyone else notice how most of the folks advocating for corps to not ask for APIs appear to be alts btw?
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